Discussion:
NY Times review of Roger's show at MSG
(too old to reply)
ZTC
2006-09-15 15:13:55 UTC
Permalink
September 14, 2006

Music Review

Fending Off That Great Gig in the Sky

By SIA MICHEL

The idea of an album may seem increasingly hoary in a singles-oriented,
downloading age, but the sellout crowd for Roger Waters at Madison
Square Garden on Tuesday night paid a lot of money to hear his band
recreate a record - in sequence, in its entirety. Granted, the record
was "The Dark Side of the Moon," the 1973 rock masterpiece by Pink
Floyd, Mr. Waters's old band. It lingered on the Billboard 200 chart
for almost 15 years and has sold about 34 million copies worldwide. And
as long as there are potheads, water beds and freshman philosophy
majors, it will continue to sell thousands of copies every month.

Part of the eternal appeal of the album is its trippy, vague
seriousness. It seems to be a concept album about the difficulties of
staying sane in a corrupt modern world. It seems to encourage people to
rebel. It seems to encourage people to maintain a childlike state of
purity. It seems to address issues like mortality ("Time"), greed
("Money"), war ("Us and Them") and madness ("Brain
Damage"). In short, it sounds really deep when one is zonked out on
drugs at 3 a.m. "The Dark Side of the Moon" helped create the
template for what a Great Album is conventionally supposed to be: a
thematic, sonically adventurous social critique with brain-frying cover
art.

The show drew a wildly diverse crowd, ranging from graying men in suits
to entire families, including a fivesome in matching Pink Floyd
T-shirts. Such was the reverence for the record that even the ringing
bells that opened "Time" received a standing, cheering ovation.

Mr. Waters, the bassist and self-proclaimed "creative genius of Pink
Floyd," credited with the lyrics to "Dark Side," performed with a
backing band that included Nick Mason of Pink Floyd on drums and a
guitarist-singer who expertly imitated David Gilmour, the Floyd member
who retained the legal rights to the band's name after it split
acrimoniously in the 1980's.

Mr. Waters took the stage in a roving spotlight, pumping his fist as if
he had just won a prizefight. Before he plunged into the album, he
played many Pink Floyd classics, including "Shine On You Crazy
Diamond," a tribute to his eccentric, reclusive former bandmate Syd
Barrett. When the face of Mr. Barrett, who died this summer, appeared
on the giant video screens, the crowd saluted him with raised lighters
and cellphones and the loudest singalong of the evening, which is
saying a lot: some die-hards even mimicked the ka-ching of cash
registers during "Money".

As "Sheep" closed the intro, one of Pink Floyd's trademark
inflatable pigs flew about the arena, with "Impeach Bush Now"
scrawled on its backside. On the main video screen, Mr. Waters offered
antiwar commentary throughout the show and compared Tony Blair to
Genghis Khan and the Son of Sam during his awkward new song, "Leaving
Beirut." His agitprop alternated with retro kitsch visuals like
squiggly amoebas, human brains, floating pills, space rocks and,
naturally, Mother Earth.

As dated as many "Dark Side" lyrics seem now ("And everything
under the sun is in tune/but the sun is eclipsed by the moon"), there
were plenty of chill-inducing quadraphonic-sound moments, and a
disturbing reminder that one day we will all head off to "The Great
Gig in the Sky." During "Time," as Mr. Waters sang, "Shorter of
breath and one day closer to death," a close-up of his wrinkled face
appeared on the video screens. Later, as the album's final song,
"Eclipse," ended, the arena filled with the sound of a beating
heart. That's some pretty heavy stuff for a Tuesday night.
frank megaweege
2006-09-15 15:43:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by ZTC
September 14, 2006
Music Review
Fending Off That Great Gig in the Sky
By SIA MICHEL
The idea of an album may seem increasingly hoary in a singles-oriented,
downloading age, but the sellout crowd for Roger Waters at Madison
Square Garden on Tuesday night paid a lot of money to hear his band
recreate a record - in sequence, in its entirety. Granted, the record
was "The Dark Side of the Moon," the 1973 rock masterpiece by Pink
Floyd, Mr. Waters's old band. It lingered on the Billboard 200 chart
for almost 15 years and has sold about 34 million copies worldwide. And
as long as there are potheads, water beds and freshman philosophy
majors, it will continue to sell thousands of copies every month.
Part of the eternal appeal of the album is its trippy, vague
seriousness. It seems to be a concept album about the difficulties of
staying sane in a corrupt modern world. It seems to encourage people to
rebel. It seems to encourage people to maintain a childlike state of
purity. It seems to address issues like mortality ("Time"), greed
("Money"), war ("Us and Them") and madness ("Brain
Damage"). In short, it sounds really deep when one is zonked out on
drugs at 3 a.m. "The Dark Side of the Moon" helped create the
template for what a Great Album is conventionally supposed to be: a
thematic, sonically adventurous social critique with brain-frying cover
art.
Why all of the "seems"? Could the author not go out on a limb and say
the album is these things?
Post by ZTC
The show drew a wildly diverse crowd, ranging from graying men in suits
to entire families, including a fivesome in matching Pink Floyd
T-shirts. Such was the reverence for the record that even the ringing
bells that opened "Time" received a standing, cheering ovation.
Mr. Waters, the bassist and self-proclaimed "creative genius of Pink
Floyd," credited with the lyrics to "Dark Side," performed with a
backing band that included Nick Mason of Pink Floyd on drums and a
guitarist-singer who expertly imitated David Gilmour, the Floyd member
who retained the legal rights to the band's name after it split
acrimoniously in the 1980's.
Mr. Waters took the stage in a roving spotlight, pumping his fist as if
he had just won a prizefight. Before he plunged into the album, he
played many Pink Floyd classics, including "Shine On You Crazy
Diamond," a tribute to his eccentric, reclusive former bandmate Syd
Barrett. When the face of Mr. Barrett, who died this summer, appeared
on the giant video screens, the crowd saluted him with raised lighters
and cellphones and the loudest singalong of the evening, which is
saying a lot: some die-hards even mimicked the ka-ching of cash
registers during "Money".
As "Sheep" closed the intro, one of Pink Floyd's trademark
inflatable pigs flew about the arena, with "Impeach Bush Now"
scrawled on its backside. On the main video screen, Mr. Waters offered
antiwar commentary throughout the show and compared Tony Blair to
Genghis Khan and the Son of Sam during his awkward new song, "Leaving
Beirut." His agitprop alternated with retro kitsch visuals like
squiggly amoebas, human brains, floating pills, space rocks and,
naturally, Mother Earth.
As dated as many "Dark Side" lyrics seem now ("And everything
under the sun is in tune/but the sun is eclipsed by the moon"),
How is that dated? Maybe they're not since they just "seem" that way.

there
Post by ZTC
were plenty of chill-inducing quadraphonic-sound moments, and a
disturbing reminder that one day we will all head off to "The Great
Gig in the Sky." During "Time," as Mr. Waters sang, "Shorter of
breath and one day closer to death," a close-up of his wrinkled face
appeared on the video screens. Later, as the album's final song,
"Eclipse," ended, the arena filled with the sound of a beating
heart. That's some pretty heavy stuff for a Tuesday night.
Awful writing.
Caffe Mocha
2006-09-15 21:22:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by frank megaweege
Post by ZTC
As dated as many "Dark Side" lyrics seem now ("And everything
under the sun is in tune/but the sun is eclipsed by the moon"),
How is that dated?
Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Does the sun not get eclipsed by
the moon anymore?
Post by frank megaweege
there
Post by ZTC
were plenty of chill-inducing quadraphonic-sound moments, and a
disturbing reminder that one day we will all head off to "The Great
Gig in the Sky." During "Time," as Mr. Waters sang, "Shorter of
breath and one day closer to death," a close-up of his wrinkled face
appeared on the video screens. Later, as the album's final song,
"Eclipse," ended, the arena filled with the sound of a beating
heart. That's some pretty heavy stuff for a Tuesday night.
Awful writing.
I agree. Did Rog really sing that line in "Time"? If so, why? He didn't
sing it on the album.

Sounds to me like a typically clueless reviewer who thinks he/she is
supposed to know what Pink Floyd is all about -- you know, an old '70s
band for potheads, and because of that, I have to maintain my hipster
attitude about all of this and look down my nose at it, with a bit of
detached bemusement.

Funny, I love Floyd, and I've never touched an illicit drug in my life.
There goes that stereotype.

I'm looking forward to the Bristow, VA, show, despite this review.
Dt Lemons 1900
2006-09-15 21:26:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Caffe Mocha
Post by frank megaweege
Post by ZTC
As dated as many "Dark Side" lyrics seem now ("And everything
under the sun is in tune/but the sun is eclipsed by the moon"),
How is that dated?
Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Does the sun not get eclipsed by
the moon anymore?
Post by frank megaweege
there
Post by ZTC
were plenty of chill-inducing quadraphonic-sound moments, and a
disturbing reminder that one day we will all head off to "The Great
Gig in the Sky." During "Time," as Mr. Waters sang, "Shorter of
breath and one day closer to death," a close-up of his wrinkled face
appeared on the video screens. Later, as the album's final song,
"Eclipse," ended, the arena filled with the sound of a beating
heart. That's some pretty heavy stuff for a Tuesday night.
Awful writing.
I agree. Did Rog really sing that line in "Time"? If so, why? He didn't
sing it on the album.
Sounds to me like a typically clueless reviewer who thinks he/she is
supposed to know what Pink Floyd is all about -- you know, an old '70s
band for potheads, and because of that, I have to maintain my hipster
attitude about all of this and look down my nose at it, with a bit of
detached bemusement.
Funny, I love Floyd, and I've never touched an illicit drug in my life.
I have never understood people like you. Why did you choose to never try
drugs?

My brother who is an attorney played the same game.
Gil "Pferd" Ulrik
2006-09-16 01:31:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dt Lemons 1900
I have never understood people like you. Why did you choose to never try
drugs?
Well, for the record, I _have_ tried drugs, but just as a guess, I think
people like you might be a part of it.

And yeah, that's a hell of a lot of sneer for one article. Then again, it's
ROCK CRITICISM in the NEW YORK TIMES, so I suppose one couldn't expect much
else.
--
"I'm Imhotep! So,
Take care of this stinking vest!
Horse, disable Yoda pants!
Yoda pant tailor
Then DIE!!!!" - Christian Vander, Nebehr Gudatt
tension_on_the_wire
2006-09-16 03:38:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gil "Pferd" Ulrik
And yeah, that's a hell of a lot of sneer for one article. Then again, it's
ROCK CRITICISM in the NEW YORK TIMES, so I suppose one couldn't expect much
else.
Exactly. And it likely was not helped by the NYC audience which
sometimes has the tendency to think that *IT* is the main attraction,
not the act on stage. I am looking forward to seeing this show in
October with a San Francisco audience. Baked, or not, they will at
least understand that they are there to see something worthwhile, not
to find something to look down their noses at.

--tension
AC
2006-09-16 01:37:24 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:26:05 -0700,
Post by Dt Lemons 1900
Post by Caffe Mocha
Post by frank megaweege
Post by ZTC
As dated as many "Dark Side" lyrics seem now ("And everything
under the sun is in tune/but the sun is eclipsed by the moon"),
How is that dated?
Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Does the sun not get eclipsed by
the moon anymore?
Post by frank megaweege
there
Post by ZTC
were plenty of chill-inducing quadraphonic-sound moments, and a
disturbing reminder that one day we will all head off to "The Great
Gig in the Sky." During "Time," as Mr. Waters sang, "Shorter of
breath and one day closer to death," a close-up of his wrinkled face
appeared on the video screens. Later, as the album's final song,
"Eclipse," ended, the arena filled with the sound of a beating
heart. That's some pretty heavy stuff for a Tuesday night.
Awful writing.
I agree. Did Rog really sing that line in "Time"? If so, why? He didn't
sing it on the album.
Sounds to me like a typically clueless reviewer who thinks he/she is
supposed to know what Pink Floyd is all about -- you know, an old '70s
band for potheads, and because of that, I have to maintain my hipster
attitude about all of this and look down my nose at it, with a bit of
detached bemusement.
Funny, I love Floyd, and I've never touched an illicit drug in my life.
I have never understood people like you. Why did you choose to never try
drugs?
My brother who is an attorney played the same game.
And I'll bet you're greatful for the food baskets he delivers to the
cardboard box you live in.
--
Aaron Clausen
***@gmail.com
Dt Lemons 1900
2006-09-16 01:51:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by AC
On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:26:05 -0700,
Post by Dt Lemons 1900
Post by Caffe Mocha
Post by frank megaweege
Post by ZTC
As dated as many "Dark Side" lyrics seem now ("And everything
under the sun is in tune/but the sun is eclipsed by the moon"),
How is that dated?
Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Does the sun not get eclipsed by
the moon anymore?
Post by frank megaweege
there
Post by ZTC
were plenty of chill-inducing quadraphonic-sound moments, and a
disturbing reminder that one day we will all head off to "The Great
Gig in the Sky." During "Time," as Mr. Waters sang, "Shorter of
breath and one day closer to death," a close-up of his wrinkled face
appeared on the video screens. Later, as the album's final song,
"Eclipse," ended, the arena filled with the sound of a beating
heart. That's some pretty heavy stuff for a Tuesday night.
Awful writing.
I agree. Did Rog really sing that line in "Time"? If so, why? He didn't
sing it on the album.
Sounds to me like a typically clueless reviewer who thinks he/she is
supposed to know what Pink Floyd is all about -- you know, an old '70s
band for potheads, and because of that, I have to maintain my hipster
attitude about all of this and look down my nose at it, with a bit of
detached bemusement.
Funny, I love Floyd, and I've never touched an illicit drug in my life.
I have never understood people like you. Why did you choose to never try
drugs?
My brother who is an attorney played the same game.
And I'll bet you're greatful for the food baskets he delivers to the
cardboard box you live in.
Greatful??? What a fucking idiot!
tension_on_the_wire
2006-09-16 03:34:12 UTC
Permalink
.
Post by Dt Lemons 1900
Post by AC
On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:26:05 -0700,
Post by Dt Lemons 1900
I have never understood people like you. Why did you choose to never try
drugs?
My brother who is an attorney played the same game.
And I'll bet you're greatful for the food baskets he delivers to the
cardboard box you live in.
Greatful??? What a fucking idiot
Did you hear that? <<<<<<<<whoooooosh>>>>>>>>
oldpink
2006-09-15 22:36:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Caffe Mocha
Post by frank megaweege
Post by ZTC
As dated as many "Dark Side" lyrics seem now ("And everything
under the sun is in tune/but the sun is eclipsed by the moon"),
How is that dated?
Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Does the sun not get eclipsed by
the moon anymore?
Only in the world of us stoners, maaaaaaaaaaaan.
Post by Caffe Mocha
Post by frank megaweege
there
Post by ZTC
were plenty of chill-inducing quadraphonic-sound moments, and a
disturbing reminder that one day we will all head off to "The Great
Gig in the Sky." During "Time," as Mr. Waters sang, "Shorter of
breath and one day closer to death," a close-up of his wrinkled face
appeared on the video screens. Later, as the album's final song,
"Eclipse," ended, the arena filled with the sound of a beating
heart. That's some pretty heavy stuff for a Tuesday night.
Awful writing.
I agree. Did Rog really sing that line in "Time"? If so, why? He didn't
sing it on the album.
The line is in "Time," but Dave sang it, as you seem to be observing.
Post by Caffe Mocha
Sounds to me like a typically clueless reviewer who thinks he/she is
supposed to know what Pink Floyd is all about -- you know, an old '70s
band for potheads, and because of that, I have to maintain my hipster
attitude about all of this and look down my nose at it, with a bit of
detached bemusement.
I thought the same thing.
Well, either that, or he was your typically "fan" who saw them back in
1977, but was too baked to even remember being at the gig.
Post by Caffe Mocha
Funny, I love Floyd, and I've never touched an illicit drug in my life.
There goes that stereotype.
Ditto, plus a very conservative Republican in the bargain.
I suppose I'm not allowed to be a fan now.
;-)
Post by Caffe Mocha
I'm looking forward to the Bristow, VA, show, despite this review.
He's coming to my area next month, but I won't be there.
I already saw him in 1987, and I just couldn't quite get around the lack
of Dave.
--
And what exactly is a joke?
Simon
2006-09-16 08:39:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by oldpink
Post by Caffe Mocha
I'm looking forward to the Bristow, VA, show, despite this review.
He's coming to my area next month, but I won't be there.
I already saw him in 1987, and I just couldn't quite get around the lack
of Dave.
If that's the only reason, go buy a ticket right now ;)
Kilminster ain't Dave but does an excellent job.

IMO, don't miss this tour, it's a very good show, and maybe the last
time we see Rog live...

Simon
Argenteus
2006-09-20 15:40:27 UTC
Permalink
oldpink wrote:
<snip>
Post by oldpink
He's coming to my area next month, but I won't be there.
I already saw him in 1987, and I just couldn't quite get around the lack
of Dave.
Possibly a bad decision. The guy he has on lead, Dave Kilminster, has
the Gilmour guitar work down pat, I mean totally nails every part. On
the one hand, I'm a purist who wants to see the original guys playing
their own parts, and I'm usually a bit put off by surrogates (Guy
Pratt, for example, rips the fabric of my soul). But on the other hand,
and granted he didn't write the parts, and granted that this is
probably the most sacriligious thing I've ever posted on this venerable
newsgroup - there were times when Kilminster played the parts ~better~
than Gilmour does live, as far as being true to the recorded versions
goes. I mean according to Gilmour, a special guitar with extra frets is
needed for the third part of the bridge solo of Money. Gilmour doesn't
even try to play that part true to the album. Kilminster nailed it
note-perfect, on a friggin' Telecaster no less. And the rest of the
band is almost the PF touring band - Snowy White, Andy Fairweather-Low,
Jon Carin, and the woo-woo girls aren't generic either - Katie Kissoon,
PP Arnold and Carol Kenyon.

Of course, there's no getting around not having Gilmour's voice. But
after finally learning to love PF without Waters voice, I find Roger's
band easier to take. I mean, the guys singing the Gilmour and Wright
parts (Kilminster and Carin) have good voices, mellow voices, not
Gilmour but not totally left-field either. I find that for me, it's
actually Roger's voice that there's no substitute for, and I found his
performance of Dark Side more satisfying than the one on Pulse.

Just something to consider.

----------------
Argenteus
"Get me a collar and leash, I'm taking him out of here."
tension_on_the_wire
2006-09-21 02:00:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Argenteus
<snip>
Post by oldpink
He's coming to my area next month, but I won't be there.
I already saw him in 1987, and I just couldn't quite get around the lack
of Dave.
Possibly a bad decision. The guy he has on lead, Dave Kilminster, has
the Gilmour guitar work down pat, I mean totally nails every part. On
the one hand, I'm a purist who wants to see the original guys playing
their own parts, and I'm usually a bit put off by surrogates (Guy
Pratt, for example, rips the fabric of my soul). But on the other hand,
and granted he didn't write the parts, and granted that this is
probably the most sacriligious thing I've ever posted on this venerable
newsgroup - there were times when Kilminster played the parts ~better~
than Gilmour does live, as far as being true to the recorded versions
goes. I mean according to Gilmour, a special guitar with extra frets is
needed for the third part of the bridge solo of Money. Gilmour doesn't
even try to play that part true to the album. Kilminster nailed it
note-perfect, on a friggin' Telecaster no less. And the rest of the
band is almost the PF touring band - Snowy White, Andy Fairweather-Low,
Jon Carin, and the woo-woo girls aren't generic either - Katie Kissoon,
PP Arnold and Carol Kenyon.
Of course, there's no getting around not having Gilmour's voice. But
after finally learning to love PF without Waters voice, I find Roger's
band easier to take. I mean, the guys singing the Gilmour and Wright
parts (Kilminster and Carin) have good voices, mellow voices, not
Gilmour but not totally left-field either. I find that for me, it's
actually Roger's voice that there's no substitute for, and I found his
performance of Dark Side more satisfying than the one on Pulse.
Snowy White is nothing to sniff at either. He has a feather-light
touch on his Telly and nails the parts with feeling. And Andy
Fairweather too. There's no question that Waters has gone out to
compensate for his lack of Pink Floyd by getting some of the best
session players in the business to tour with. Thank God he got rid of
that Paul Stanley wannabe whatthehell's his name from the In the Flesh
tour...I'm looking forward to the show in October here in SF

--tension
Argenteus
2006-09-22 20:42:15 UTC
Permalink
tension_on_the_wire wrote:
<snip>
Post by tension_on_the_wire
Snowy White is nothing to sniff at either. He has a feather-light
touch on his Telly and nails the parts with feeling.
Absolutely, though he goes off on his own thing rather than playing
Dave's licks. I was just reassuring Old Pink that the guitar lines we
expect to hear are indeed covered impeccably.

The whole band is tremendous, really, like I said several of them,
Snowy and Andy included, are usually in the tour band when PF hits the
road.
Post by tension_on_the_wire
And Andy
Fairweather too. There's no question that Waters has gone out to
compensate for his lack of Pink Floyd by getting some of the best
session players in the business to tour with. Thank God he got rid of
that Paul Stanley wannabe whatthehell's his name from the In the Flesh
tour...I'm looking forward to the show in October here in SF
Who, Doyle Bramhall? I thought he was pretty good, though he did throw
his on touch onto the Gilmour solos, so they were never quite the way I
wanted to hear them played. You'll definitely be more pleased with
Kilminster. Though he does unbutton his shirt too during the second
half.

---------------
Argenteus
"And they never stopped singing. Holy holy holy shit."
tension_on_the_wire
2006-09-22 21:15:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Argenteus
<snip>
Post by tension_on_the_wire
Snowy White is nothing to sniff at either. He has a feather-light
touch on his Telly and nails the parts with feeling.
Absolutely, though he goes off on his own thing rather than playing
Dave's licks. I was just reassuring Old Pink that the guitar lines we
expect to hear are indeed covered impeccably.
The whole band is tremendous, really, like I said several of them,
Snowy and Andy included, are usually in the tour band when PF hits the
road.
Post by tension_on_the_wire
And Andy
Fairweather too. There's no question that Waters has gone out to
compensate for his lack of Pink Floyd by getting some of the best
session players in the business to tour with. Thank God he got rid of
that Paul Stanley wannabe whatthehell's his name from the In the Flesh
tour...I'm looking forward to the show in October here in SF
Who, Doyle Bramhall? I thought he was pretty good, though he did throw
his on touch onto the Gilmour solos, so they were never quite the way I
wanted to hear them played. You'll definitely be more pleased with
Kilminster. Though he does unbutton his shirt too during the second
half.
Yes I notice their occasional wanderings, but they showed good judgment
about when to go off, versus when to nail the Gilmour riff. The thing
is, there's nothing wrong with going off the album line if it is done
well...that's what jamming a good solo means, and every good musician
respects it when it is done well, even with their own work. David
Gilmour has said as much, in fact, though I can't remember in what
interview he said it. But he *likes* to see/hear different
interpretations of his work much better than listening to someone
nailing the part down cold based on someone else's playing.

Bramhall, however, is in a different category. I didn't mind too much
when he went off, though he sometimes did it at the wrong time, when
you really want to hear that bit just in the old way, but much worse
than that....when he *did* try to do David Gilmour's part, he just
could never quite get that note. He was a bit sloppy in that regard,
and if you are going to nail the acme note in a solo the way David
Gilmour did it, you had better not slip. Better not to attempt it all
if you cannot do it.

--tension

?®ßukkåke
2006-09-17 12:22:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by ZTC
September 14, 2006
As "Sheep" closed the intro
some questions


1. was the show sold out and if yes: what was the black market ticket price?

2. did he play Sheep?
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